Hungarian 1986 postage stamp showing the Nativity scene along with Halley’s Comet and the Giotto spacecraft
Perhaps you have already anticipated the key to this final mystery: retrograde motion.
An astronomer tracking the movement of planets through the star field watches not so much on the scale of minutes, but on the longer scale of days, weeks and months.
On this scale of time, Jupiter did stop.
On December 25 of 2 BC as it entered retrograde, Jupiter reached full stop in its travel through the fixed stars. Magi viewing from Jerusalem would have seen it stopped in the sky above the little town of Bethlehem.
All of this information is really fascinating. I followed all of it until the end. Maybe you can pick through my question. So the ninth point that the star must fulfill is that is has to come to a stop ‘over the town of Bethlehem’. Why Bethlehem? I’ve been reading over and over again and I can’t seem to find why it’s a requirement for the star to stop over Bethlehem. It makes more sense textually that the star would stop over Nazareth (this would be in December, when Jesus is now 6 months old and back home…. right?) The reason I ask this is because if the Magi saw the star (Jupiter/Venus) in June when Jesus was born and then mounted up and traveled to Jerusalem first, they would have got to Jerusalem sometime in summer/fall (say August-October or even later). The Bible says about Jesus’ family that “When the time of their purification according to the Law of Moses (however long that takes) had been completed, Joseph and Mary took him to Jerusalem” Luke 2:22. So after he was born, but before the Magi get there, Jesus and his family go from Bethlehem to Jerusalem. Sometime later the Magi arrive in Jerusalem and are sent by Herod to go to Bethlehem to look for the baby (Matt. 2:8). However, it’s obvious that Herod didn’t know Jesus had already come to Jerusalem for his purification and then “when Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Gaililee to their own town of Nazareth” Luke 2:39. So Herod knew the baby was going to be born in Bethlehem but Jesus wasn’t there anymore because he’d already gone to Jerusalem and then headed back to Nazareth.
In Matthew 2, when the Magi leave Jerusalem, the Bible doesn’t say the star stopped in the place Jesus was born (Bethlehem), just that “it stopped over the place where the child was.” vrs 9. And that the child was no longer in a manger but now in a house (vrs. 11). So my hang up with the last point is, when the Magi saw the stopped star, was it directly over Bethlehem or was it actually over Nazareth? Can you look at this again on your software or help me understand a little better. I’m having a hard time matching this data with what I’m finding in the Bible. Thanks! I hope I was logical enough in my explanation – Trista
The scriptures say the Star stopped over the place where the child was. Matthew 2.8 tells us that was Bethlehem.
Hope this helps!
Trista, you are correct: Matthew does not specifically say the magi went to Bethlehem. He says the star “stoopd over where the young child was” (2:9). Matthew says Jesus was born in Bethlehem (2:1), but he does not say Jesus was still in Bethlehem at the time of the magi’s visit.
However, that woud be the natural reading of the text. The magi came to Jerusalem and inquired, the scribes citing Scripture told them the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem, and Herod sent them to Bethlehem. The natural conclusion an unbiased reader would derive from this, is that the magi followed these instructions and went to Bethlehem. To conclude that they did not follow the directions of the scribes, the Scriptures, and Herod, and instead went the opposite direction to Nazareth, a reader would have to assume facts that are not stated in this text.
Herod also told the magi to return to him (2:8). However, that in 2:12 Matthew tells us the magi were warned in a dream not to return to Herod, so they followed a different course. We are specifically told that the magi did not follow Herod’s instruction to return to Jerusalem. But we are never told that they did not follow his instructionto go to Bethlehem. The likely conclusion from a natural reading of the text, then, is that the star led the magi to Bethlehem.
You are also correct in assuming that Jesus and His family would not have remained in Bethlehem after His circumcision on the eighth day or at least after Mary’s purification on the 40th day. After they left Jerusalem, they likely would have returned north to their home in Nazareth. I conclude, therefore, that the magi must have visited Jesus in Bethlehem not more than 40 days after His birth. This does not require a hasty journey. God could have caused the star to appear in advance as a portent of Jesus’s birth.
I agree with those who say, based upon calculations of the dates the various courses of priests served in the temple, that in all likelihood Jesus was born on or about 25 Dec. Also, St. John Chrysostom (400s AD) wrote that Jesus’s birthdate was ascertained by examining census records that Titus had brought from Jerusalem to Rome. Possibly someone might find these records in the Vatican archives, but in the days before printing many important documents available to ancient scholars have been lost today. The idea that the Church adopted the birthday of the sun as the birthday of the Son is unlikely; the cults that celebrated the birthday of the sun did not proliferate in Rome until at least the second century AD. Edersheim and others maintain that shepherds did keep watch over their sheep in the field all through the year, especially those sheep that were bred for sacrifice.
I have enlarged greatly on these latter points in two posts which appear in the Firm Foundation blog on the website of the Foundation for Moral law, morallaw.org. Please go to morallaw.org, click on Firm Foundation, and check the posts “Following Yonder Star: A Christmas Meditation” and “The Magi, the Monarch, and the Messiah: A Christmas Contemplation.”
Since I believe that the Bible is the Word of God and there is no error, then the two passages (Matt 2:8-9 and Luke 2: 21-39) must agree. After doing some research, I found and explanation by Wolfgang Schneider. Jesus was taken to Jerusalem for the purification 40 days after the birth as required by the law (Lev 12:2-4) but due to them being poor and Joseph may have had some work to keep them in Bethlehem, then they probably stayed in Bethlehem until the Magi came, instead of traveling a long way to Nazareth. After the Magi came, the family went to Egypt (after the warning in a dream Matt 2:13) and then made their way to Nazareth after Herod was dead (Matt 2:19-23). I guess Luke just skipped a few details (or years) on how Jesus made it to Nazareth. From the video, it seems that the star stops over Bethlehem. I may need to invest in the Starry Night software and see Jupiter is at that time from Jerusalem to look for myself.
The exact details are not in the Bible. There are several possibilities. Here is my favorite:
Joseph and Mary may have decided to live in Bethlehem and were there when the magi arrived. After all, it was his “home town” so to speak. After the trip to Egypt they may have decided to go back to Nazareth. After all, Herod’s son had assumed the throne and they may have thought it wise not to return to Bethlehem.
We will probably not be able to decipher this exactly but it is not a problem for them to be in Bethlehem for the Magi visit.
I think we need to add a human aspect in here. In the eyes of their hometown crowd, Mary had just given birth to a baby out of wedlock. The entire situaution is scandalous. We don’t know the personal side of it, but there may have been very little reason for Mary and Joseph to return to Nazareth at this point.
Is it not only 5 hours travel from Bethlehem to Nazareth, walking? It takes one day nine hours to walk from Bethlehem to Jerusalem and it takes One day seven hours to walk from Nazareth to Jerusalem. Would they have opted to live in Bethlehem on the fact that Mary’s pregnancy was questionable, a community of slightly over 400 people and only five hours or less away from Nazareth and expect people not to know. I do not think that is a reason enough and the same bible goes on to describe Jesus as a well known son of the carpenter with known brothers and sisters. Watch the stars again you missed something. Thanks for the great knowledge and research though. God bless you.
Bethlehem is 5 miles south of Jerusalem.
Laddie, I believe your geography is a little off, because Nazareth and Bethlehem are not as close as you assume. Nazareth of Galilee is about 60 miles north of Jerusalem; Bethlehem of Judea is about 9 miles south. Although this sounds like a 70-mile journey, you must remember that during New Testament times the land of Samaria lay between Galilee and Judea. Since Jews would not pass through Samaria, they instead would travel out of their way in two paths: either across the River Jordan or by the way of Joppa on the Mediterranean coast. If they chose the River Jordan route, they would crossing near the southern end of the Sea of Galilee in the north, and near Jericho in the south (just north of the Dead Sea). Considering the difficult terrain and the additional 20-30 miles, a trip from Bethlehem, through Jerusalem and Jericho, across the Jordan, and back to Nazareth might take 10 to 15 days with a nursing mother and an infant. An easier trip might be to go by way of Joppa on the western coast. It would be a similar distance but over flatter land once away from Nazareth or Jerusalem; probably an eight-twelve day trip. It was likely a safer trip due to the danger of robbers on the Jericho Road, but more dangerous from Herod the Great or his son, Herod Archelaus, who ruled after him from Caesarea Maritima, 30 miles north of Joppa. When Jesus was older and returning from Egypt (Matthew 2), the trip from Judea to Galilee was more likely 5-8 days (fleeing Herod’s son at about 12-20 miles a day max. avg., considering his age and the difficulty of the Jericho Road).
Therefore, it is more likely that after Jesus was brought as an infant to the temple 40 days after His birth (Luke 2:21-38; see also Leviticus 12), the events in Matthew’s gospel intervene (at the very least the escape to Egypt in Mt. 2:13-23, if not also the visit from the Magi in verses 1-12). Then the timeline of Jesus’ childhood reverts to the remainder of Luke 2 (verses 39-52).
Hello Trista, I understand you question about how did the star sop? I can’t perfectly explain, but it has to do with the orbit of juniper and the earth orbit around the sun. A planetary recreation of the orbits in those days recreated on computer software shows how when looking from !jerusalem to bethleham, shows that Jupiter appears to stop, but it really is both earth and Jupiter both moving creating the allusion to the naked eye that the planet stops. If the see the DVD presentation it shows exactly. God bless
Thanks, Jonathan, for a very good explanation, and I appreciate you seeking the harmony in inspired and inerrant scriptures. Joseph and Mary were indeed poor, as evidenced by Luke 2:24 – they brought two turtledoves or pigeons for the sacrifice because they could not afford a lamb (Leviticus 12:8). They may have rented out a little house in Bethlehem, and been there when the wise men visited them and the “young child”. The gifts from the wise men – gold, myrrh, and frankincense – not only may symbolize the divinity, death, and priesthood of the Lord Jesus, but also provided financial means for the young family to live during their exile in Egypt. Returning from Egypt at the bidding of the Lord, and learning of Herod’s successor, they went on to Nazareth, and Luke 2:39 records that.
The probalem with your thoughts is you over looked the Sheperds
shepherds are not in the field at this time of the year
shepherds do not have there sheep in the field in the winter
[luke 2:8]
Actually, that’s incorrect. Please have a look at the entry in the FAQ on the site.
But the fixed stars still travel across the sky, those in the plane of the ecliptic rising in the east and setting in the west (unless in retrograde). To say Jupiter stopped over Bethlehem implies that it parked itself quite near the zenith despite whatever the stars in the background were doing. I just don’t understand how that can happen. Jupiter would have to “move” around the Earth at the same rate the Earth rotates, wouldn’t it?
You are correct, that the appearance of Jupiter to have stopped over Bethlehem is dependent upon both the time of viewing and the position of the viewer on Earth. But that slightly misunderstands the project here. My point is that there is no reason to consider Matthew’s account mythical. Actual events occurred which correlate perfectly with his account.
I do see Jupiter kind of dance around the zenith on December 25, 2 BC. It does hang out there for quite a while. Perhaps long enough to cause a viewer to perceive it as “stopped.” Of all the celestial bodies to be “up there” while the peak shifts, it’s the King Planet. That still says something and I still believe that’s when the Magi showed up on the scene – and I’ll gladly celebrate with them.
This is fascinating, and my question is with all respect. Are you saying that the star stopped precisely on December 25th, the day we celebrate Christs birth? This needs some more detailed exploration/explanation. I don’t think you are saying that Jesus was born that day, your explanations seem to point more to the summer. Are you then implying that the reason we celebrate Chrismas is that the star stopped on 12/25, or is this just coincidence? Again, please elaborate. Lastly, how do you reconcile your two adjoining statements that …”An astronomer tracking the movement of planets through the star field watches not so much on the scale of minutes, but on the longer scale of days, weeks and months”… with the precision of the Maji seeing the star stopping exactly on December 25th? Do these statements not contradict? Were the Maji watching on a week/month scale, or down to the precision of a single day? Please correct me, but it seems that you are forcing the data here to place an event on 12/25, the traditional day of Christmas.
No, not forcing anything. Just observing that Jupiter’s retrograde motion did indeed cause it to stop on December 25. Of course this date had no particular significance for the Magi. They were not even using our calendar system. But I find it fascinating that the date of the visit to Jesus is positively tied to December 25 by celestial events and Matthew’s Gospel.
There is nothing inconsistent about observing that some things in the heavens happen on a particular day while some things require months for completion. That’s just how the solar system works.
Brother Larson, I for one am willing to consider June 17th as the big day. For the sake of love and peace, I’ll always celebrate December 25th with loved ones, but in my heart, I now see that as the day of visitation of the magi, celebrating fulfillment of prophecy and the rewarding of the magis’ diligence in seeking God. Matthew 2:1-2 says, “Now AFTER Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem, saying, 2 “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”
Yes. The Magi arrived when Jesus was a toddler residing in a house.
This study is really great and I find it fascinating. I’m sorry but I’m getting hung up on your use of the word toddler in your comment “The Magi arrived when Jesus was a toddler residing in a house.” If Jesus was born in June and the Magi visited the following December (around the 25th), Jesus would only be about 6 months old, which is typically when infants begin to learn to sit up by themselves, and soon thereafter learn to crawl. Walking for most infants, at least during our time, usually doesn’t occur until “about” 8 or 9 months (at the very earliest) to about 14 months (or later) for some infants. I would think that the baby Jesus was not yet walking at the time of the Magi’s visit in December if Jesus had been born the previous June.
The word “toddler” does not have a uniform meaning. Many infants are pulling up at six months. It is easy to find YouTube videos of infants walking at six months of age. I am guessing that Jesus was a precocious child.
Professor Larson, I’m puzzled. If I understand you correctly, you are saying Jesus was born 25 December and the star stopped over Bethlehem 25 December (all of which I agree with). But in your 2 Dec post you say the Magi arrived when Jesus was a toddler residing in a house.
What am I missing here?
I believe the first Christmas was on December 25 of 2 BC. I think Jesus was born in June of 2 BC.
Professor Larson, I’m still trying to figure out what you are saying. You say you believe Jesus was born in June 2 BC and the first Christmas was 25 December 2 BC. I think you’re saying Jesus was born in June 2 BC but His birth was not celebrated until December 2 BC, because that’s when the Magi arrived in Bethlehem.
Do I understand you correctly?
If that is your position, then why would Mary & Joseph stay in Bethlehem for at least 6 months after the census and Jesus’s birth, despite going to Jerusalem on the 8th day for Jesus’s circumcision and on the 40th day for Mary’s purification?
Some details of the story are missing. I don’t think anyone really “knows” the answer to your question. However, the little family was obviously quite mobile, traveling to Bethlehem, Egypt, et cetera. And, we assume, they had family in Bethlehem. Family can be extremely helpful when a newborn joins the family, especially when it is a first child.
Hi – I have your video – and intrigued by it. Most scholars believe that Jesus was not born on Dec 25th – but rather in the Fall for a host of reasons – yet in you text above you hold that he was born on Dec 25th. This does not sit well with me. Am i correct that you believe Jesus was born on Dec 25th – some hold that Jesus was conceived in the time frame. Please clarify you thoughts on that. Thanks you for your excellent research.
I have not said that Jesus was born on December 25. I don’t know anyone who believes that. I’m sorry for any misunderstanding. For further on this please read this website, or carefully review the DVD.
I posted a question early this morning that later in the morning appeared on the website. When I logged in this afternoon to see if there was an answer to my question, my post was replaced by the question by John Eidsmoe. I’m greatly disappointed in that. We both had questions about your statement that Jesus was a toddler when the Magi visited, but my question pointed out that your research indicates the Magi visited around December 25th, and I believe it also indicated that Jesus was born around the time of June, six months prior to the visit of the Magi.
I had no intention of replacing any comments. I’m not perfectly sure what the software may have done. But I certainly intend to permit all posts here that are not profane, et cetera.
Isn’t your earlier post still in this thread? Maybe you overlooked it.
Please cancel my second post which was entered at 3:54pm. For some reason my first post hadn’t been showing up on the screen.
The June date is interesting but how does it relate to the census in 3 BC and their having to be in Bethlehem then? By June they wouldn’t need a manger. The census was over by 2 BC since Augustus was already celebrating since Feb, 2BC. Any ideas?
Dan:
A little of this story may be told in my new film, the Christ Quake. I think Mary and Joseph’s journey was related to a celebration of Augustus’ 25th year of reign, and his new title, Pater Patriae. Stay tuned!
« On December 25 of 2 BC as it entered retrograde, Jupiter reached full stop in its travel through the fixed stars. »
But it would still participate in the apparent rotation of the celestial sphere – fixed with respect to the stars but moving with them as they rise in the east and set in the west. The Star, too, would set in the west.
« Magi viewing from Jerusalem would have seen it stopped in the sky above the little town of Bethlehem. »
Like all the other stars would appear stopped in the sky at the moment of observation. But as they journeyed the stars – including the one you postulate – would move inexorably into the west. For this Star to remain fixed over Bethlehem it could not be fixed in the sky.
You are exactly correct. Viewing time is part of the equation. Also, please remember the goal of the project, which is not to prove that the Magi *had* to see the star, but only that they *could*. There is no reason to regard Matthew’s account as mythical. Astrophysical events correlate with his account.
I fear you’re missing my point. The text says “It [the Star] went ahead of them and stopped over the place where the child was”. This is not a description of Jupiter at a stationary point, which would be fixed to the celestial sphere and take part in its rotation. Jupiter will not “go ahead” of the anyone. It will not stop over a place.
Do the observations yourself! At the moment Jupiter is not far from opposition, which was on 3rd December. It rises in the east at around sunset. It will reach a stationary point on 30th January 2013. Watch it rise in the east and set in the west, not changing its position with respect to the stars over the course of a night! Line it up with an object on the Earth (“over the place”) then walk (or, better, drive) towards it. Watch Jupiter move away from the object!
Jupiter just does not behave like Matthew describes the Star as behaving.
No, not missing your point at all. I simply disagree with you when you say, “This is not a description of Jupiter at a stationary point, which would be fixed to the celestial sphere and take part in its rotation.” On the contrary, I believe that is what it describes, Jupiter entering its retrograde. Jupiter actually does not “stay fixed to the celestial sphere”. Jupiter is a planet, a wondering star. I believe Matthew did a remarkable job of capturing the idea of the retrograde in simple language. If you borrow or rent a copy of the Star DVD, I think it may help you visualize this— it is quite striking.
Nope, sorry, you’re still not with it. Have you done the observation, as I suggested? Over the course of one evening Jupiter WOULD NOT MOVE against the starry background, as seen with the naked eye. Its movement is only apparent over days, not hours. It would rise in the east, culminate in the south and set in the west over the course of a night like any other celestial object. At no time would it “go ahead”, nor would it “stop over a place”. It just does not fit Matthew’s description.
This can be demonstrated quite easily either by going out and looking (as I suggested) or using planetarium software such as Stellarium which is a free, Open Source application.
http://www.stellarium.org/
Further to my previous, here is Jupiter rising in the east at 18:07 on the 16th December:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2q8r96b.jpg
Now here’s Jupiter setting in the west 10 hours later:
http://i47.tinypic.com/2mgnhqd.jpg
It has moved through the sky by 180° – from east to west. It is the same distance from stars like Aldebaran and Capella throughout the night. It has not “gone ahead”, nor has it “stopped over a place”. It just does not fit Matthew’s description!
Hi Watchkeeper,
I had the same problem as you, using stellarium and was similarly confused. However, I think I’ve figured it out after watching Larson’s video and his explanation of retrograde that would make sense for the magi as they were traveling to Jerusalem. The starry dance starts in September of 2 BC, yes? Focus on Jupiter and then set the focus to azimuthal mount (Ctrl-M).
Fast forward so the screen is centered on Jupiter. Jupiter enters starts the retrograde process and then completely stops sometime around Dec 20-27, and then reverses course.
This is what the magi would have seen. They would have been constantly watching it night after night as they traveled no? They would have seen Jupiter slow down and then stop, on the 25th as the working hypothesis, and then make the 5 mile trek south to give Jesus their gifts. This is amazing.
Did that make sense? They didn’t see the star stop over the course of one night – that would be silly as you have clearly elaborated on. They saw it stop over the course of their travel and went to Bethlehem as the prophecy stated!
This is awesome!
« They didn’t see the star stop over the course of one night »
I’m sorry but they *did*. That is precisely what Matthew records:
“And behold, the star that they had seen when it rose went before them until it came to rest over the place where the child was”.
There is absolutely no way a star or planet can “come to rest over”, “stop over” or “stand over” (pick your own translation) a particular spot on the earth.
You HAVE to take the text as authoritative and not try to bend it to your hypothesis. Jupiter is a prominent object in the sky right now. Go out and look at it. See if it will “go before” you. See if you can follow it to a particular place which it will “stop over”. That’s what Matthew says the Star did.
Hey Watchkeeper.
I understand the point you’re making: your reading of Matthew suggest that the star moved ahead of the Magi and appeared to stop above where the child was, and of course the text is authoritative. There are a few basic things to consider, beginning with exegesis. Allowing for the cultural, historical & linguistic distance, what did Matthew mean? I’m not a Greek scholar, but one can generally get a sense of the original Greek by checking multiple translations.
a. The Magi saw the star that they had seen “rising in the east” – ‘rising’ and ‘in the East’ are used in different translations for the same Greek. This suggests that Larson is correct when he states that the Bethlehem star rotated with the rest of the fixed stars each night, rather than moving independently in the course of one night.
b. “going ahead of them”. Again, allowing for translation, this could simply be seen as being in azimuth (compass) direction of Bethlehem (which it was at that time), but also prior to Dec 25th (roughly) it was actually moving through the starfield (over time) ‘toward’ Bethlehem. Something astronomers would have noted.
c. “Stood/Stopped/came to rest” one reading of this could be that it remained steady over Bethlehem while the rest of the starwheel turned, but again, checking several translations, the interpretation “Came to rest” could also mean that the star ceased moving ‘through the starfield’, which Jupiter did beginning just before December 25th. In light of point ‘a’, this actually seems more likely.
Hoodooloo
«… it was actually moving through the starfield (over time) ‘toward’ Bethlehem »
There is a Scriptural term for stars that move, and you’ll find it in Jude 13. There, it is in the plural as “asteres planetai” – “wandering stars”. This, of course, is where we get the term “planet” (“wanderer”) in the first place, and Jupiter is a planet. But Matthew does not use this term! He uses “asteron”, “star”, pure and simple.
« “Stood/Stopped/came to rest” one reading of this could be that it remained steady over Bethlehem while the rest of the starwheel turned, but again, checking several translations, the interpretation “Came to rest” could also mean that the star ceased moving ‘through the starfield’ … »
You’re not reading the text. The problem is NOT that the Star “Stood/Stopped/came to rest” or “ceased moving ‘through the starfield”. The problem is that “… it came to rest OVER THE PLACE where the child was”. The significance of the Star was not that it led to Bethlehem (the Magi were told where to go in Herod’s palace) but that it came to rest OVER THE PLACE WHERE THE CHILD WAS. Jupiter cannot do this. And because the Star pinpointed the house “they [the Magi] rejoiced exceedingly with great joy”. You have to read the actual text, not take bits out of context.
I ask you to do the observation, as I asked Russ Watson, and I ask anyone else who wants to check this out. Jupiter is a prominent object in the sky right now. At the end of January it will reach a stationary point at the limit of its retrograde motion. Go out and look at it. See if it will “go before” you. See if you can follow it to a particular place which it will “stop over”. That’s what Matthew says the Star did. Let us all know what you find. Jupiter wasn’t doing anything then that it isn’t doing today.
Do you think Christ’s star was part of the natural order? Or something which happened outside of the natural order? I believe both can and do occur.
It was out of the natural order. The natural order is still with us, but Jupiter never led anyone to a house and stopped over it, either then or since.
Also, have you viewed the Star DVD?
No, I haven’t. It wouldn’t shed any further light (pun intended) on this discussion which contrasts the behaviour of the Star with the behaviour of Jupiter.
Have you gone out and looked at Jupiter? Have you seen if it will “go before” you? Have you seen if you can follow it to a particular place which it will “stop over”? That’s what Matthew said the Star did.
I think you need to actually look at the Star DVD! You haven’t made any sense in all your posts above. I don’t think you have conceptualized what Mr. Larson is trying to say. Watching his DVD through a couple times may help you…..
FA Larson,
Thank you for your time and work in helping us discover the science of God’s perfection. Merry Christmas!
Watchkeeper, I would suggest you stop bugging Mr. Larson until you have actually seen the DVD and THEN comment! I’m not trying to sound harsh, only using common sense.
You seem to be forgetting that after leaving Herod the wise men were traveling to a known goal: Bethlehem. Therefore they were facing the city. I think this is being overanalyzed. This very conspicuous large group of foreign king’s couselors (known as wise men) would have been very noticable and could EASILY have asked somone about the child and recieved direction to the house. The star stopped as they arrived at set destination and was no longer needed.
Great point, Nelson, regarding the wise men already knowing that Bethlehem was their destination. They weren’t blindly relying on their ability to determine what spot the star appeared to stop over!
There is some excellent scripture in Luke and I Chronicles that I am convinced clearly points us to the conception and birth dates of both John the Baptist and Jesus. I did not discover this, but my research led me to this information that others had discovered in recent years. In Luke’s narrative about Elizabeth and Zachariah what looks like a passing comment (that every scholar read right past for centuries) is where Luke states that both Elizabeth and Zachariah were Levites- Luke 1:5. Zachariah was serving in the temple as required by lots for the priests as drawn by King David hundreds of years before. He was of the order of Abijah (a descendent of Abijah)- Luke 1:8. What is this Abijah comment about? This refers to a drawing of lots for service duties in the Temple that is described in detail in I Chron. 24. The descendents of Abijah were the 8th lot drawn. So, starting with the new year in Nisan, these lots determined which Aaronic descendents would be on duty taking care of the Temple in rotation. So Zachariah (in Luke’s narrative) was on duty serving in the Temple because he was of the lot of Abijah. This lot always fell around the 3rd week of June on our calendar. An angel appears to Zachariah and says he will have a baby (John the Baptist). Zachariah returns home and around June 20th of 4 BC and Elizabeth gets pregnant, I assume very quickly. God does not delay on such promises so the conception I feel was possibly his first night home. 6 Months later, Luke 1:26, Mary, Jesus’ mother is visited by the angel Gabriel and told she also will conceive, and it will be the Messiah. Gabriel tells Mary her cousin Elizabeth is also now 6 month pregnant, Luke 1:36. So we know that this Angelic visitation to Mary occurred in the last 10 days of December of 4 BC, 6 months after Elizabeth conceived, probably on June 20th. Mary goes “with haste” to Elizabeth’s for 3 months, Luke 1:56. This as most likely to escape the gossip that would occur in town. With these great clear guides in scripture we can then project to see that John the Baptist was born in Mar/Apr of 3 BC and Jesus was born 6 months later in Sept/Oct, probably on the other Jewish calendar new year around October 1st. All the stories we have heard about the sheep not being in the fields due to cold weather fall into the same category of mis-information as there being 3 wise men,angels singing to the shepherds (they spoke not sang) the early Church adopting Dec 25th to avoid persecution (Dec 25th is not even mentioned in Church historical records until the 12th CENTURY in reference to Christ’s birthdate), the census causing the crowded Inn in Bethlehem, the Inn keeper saying there was no room (Luke never records them even talking to any Inn keeper) the shepherds and wise men at the nativity together, Mary riding a donkey to Bethlehem, animals being all around the family in the stable (no animals are mentioned). There are Jewish written records of the oral law called the Mishnah. Within these records it states that a special tower called the Migdal Edar, the tower of the flock, was from where the Messiah’s arrival would be proclaimed. This tower was in a field just outside Jerusalem on the road to Bethlehem. In this field sheep were kept YEAR ROUND to be used for Temple sacrifice. There are reference in the Mishnah of the flocks being there in February, which is a cold and very rainy month, on average, in Israel. So the old story-line of shepherds not being in the field with their flocks did not hold true for this one special field and flock. Plus, the end of September and early October are not harsh months in Israel for cold as well, on average. Lastly I wanted to address the issue of the full Inn. With Jesus’ being born at the beginning of October (again all based on the clues in Luke about when Zachariah was serving in the Temple- leading to us knowing John’s birthdate and thus Jesus’ 6 months later) … October 1st falls right at the time of the Fall Jewish feasts. The males of all Israel were required to come to Jerusalem for the Feast of Tabernacles. This would have been in early October. So the rooms were all full in ALL the Inns all around the Jerusalem area, not because of the census but because of males arriving as required by Jewish law to partake in the Feast or Tabernacles. After all, would not people have been leaving Bethlehem to go to their homes for the census as well? The net population would possibly have not changed at all, were it not for these approaching feasts. Mary and Joseph could not even find a relative to stay with in town and ended up in a stable/cave behind another persons home….. All these facts I uncovered in my research fit like a glove and support the Star of Bethlehem story as well. Mr. Larson, I would recommend you check this birthdate thing out. This evidence is readily available on the net, I just cannot find my sources to quote here. These Luke and I Chronicle clues show the Sept/Oct 3 BC triple conjunction being at the time of Christ’s birth. When the Magi appeared in Dec of 2 BC and saw the retrograde of Jupiter you researched, Jeses was 15 months old. Remember Herod used the dates provided by the Magi to determine the Christ child (King of the Jews) had to be under 2 years of age. Herod would have taken the 3BC date from the Magi, along with calculating there travel time to Jeusalem, and the age the child would have been at that point, added it together to get his outside ballpark estimate of 2 years. Again, I think this research I discovered along with your fabulous Star of Bethlehem info (I own the DVD by the way) all come together perfectly with scripture. May you all have a joyous Christmas season as we celebrate the perfectness of God’s orchestrated events 2000 years ago.
Eric, there’s another idea about the ‘no room at the inn’. In Judea at the time, poorer people lived in houses with one big room. It was divided into two with one part much lower than the other. The family animals were kept in this, for security and for warmth, and the people lived, ate and slept on the higher level. This pattern is common in history, including in Mediaeval England.
It was also common for people to build a shelter on the flat roof of the house, for many purposes, but also as a private space for guests. The word ‘inn’ (in Greek) – a guest place – usually meant an establishment similar to a modern motel in the Greek world, and may well have in Herod’s Hellenistic Jerusalem. But in Judea, poorer people would (I’m told) use the same word for their own guest room, and Bethlehem was then as now, still a poor if large village.
So when Mary and Joseph arrived in crowded Bethlehem and looked to stay with a (maybe distant) relative, there would be ‘no room in the guest room’. full with other visitors, and they had to join the family in the main room. And what better to use for a cradle than one of the mangers that would be hooked to the wall between the upper and lower levels? In this interpretation, Jesus would be born in a warm family environment, yet still fulfilling the ‘manger prophecy’ and being easy to find by the shepherds who, being locals, would have known about most impending births.
It seems just as plausible an interpretation as the well-embellished Christian tradition.
A question for RSmith — Where did you find the info that the division of Abijah served the 3rd week of June on our calendar? 1 Chronicles 24 doesn’t give the month that each division served. Also, one commentary says that each of the 24 divisions served twice a year, “Each of the twenty-four divisions served in the temple for one week, twice a year, as well as at the major festivals ”
(Expositor’s Bible Commentary). Also, I see no reason why Elizabeth could not have gotten pregnant weeks or months after Zechariah’s visit with the angel.
In answer to your question about when the division of Abijah served in the Temple, see this excerpt from an article by Jack Kelley at Grace Thru Faith: Happy Birthday Lord Jesus http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/holidays-and-holy-days/happy-birthday-lord-jesus/ and the articles: The Christmas Story, Part 1 and 2.
http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/holidays-and-holy-days/the-christmas-story-part-1/
http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/holidays-and-holy-days/the-christmas-story-part-2-conclusion/
Begin quote.
King David had divided the priests into 24 courses (divisions) to serve rotating one-week periods in the temple. All 24 divisions served during the Feasts and so each one also served twice a year on rotation. The religious year began about mid-March on our calendar and right away there were nearly three weeks of preparation and Feasts: Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, and First Fruits. Then the divisions began their rotation.
Comparing Luke 1:5 to 1 Chronicles 24:10 shows that Zechariah was of the division of Abijah, number eight in the weekly rotation. Counting the time all were on duty and the eight weeks in rotation when Zechariah’s turn came puts the visit by Gabriel about 3 months into the religious year. A normal 9-month gestation period places the birth of John the Baptist at the beginning of the following religious year (mid-March, remember) and indeed there are many who believe he was born on Passover.
Let’s convert this to our calendar to avoid further confusion and discover a fascinating possibility about December 25th. In all probability John the Baptist was conceived in mid June and born the following March. According to Luke 1:36 Mary conceived in the sixth month of Elizabeth’s pregnancy. That means that our Lord was conceived in late December and born in September. Are we inadvertently celebrating His conception at Christmas instead of His birth?
Among Messianic Jews there are two primary schools of thought concerning the September birth. Both have valid points and both are based on the notion that the Jewish Feasts all have both historical and prophetic significance. One places the Lord’s birth at the Feast of Tabernacles since that feast commemorates the time of the Lord’s dwelling with His people. The other places the Lord’s birth on Rosh Hashanah because according to Jewish tradition both the Earth and Adam were born on that day and the Lord is the “Last Adam” (1 Corinthians 15:45). For this reason as well as the prevalence of trumpets in its celebration (it’s also called The Feast of Trumpets) and other factors, I personally prefer Rosh Hashanah and believe that the 2nd Coming will also take place on this day. But regardless of which date you prefer, from all that the Bible, Jewish tradition and Church history tell us, early fall is the time to sing “Happy Birthday, Lord Jesus.”
End quote.
There is also an interesting Old Testament Scripture written by the prophet Haggai around 520 B.C. that possibly foretells the Messiah’s conception on 24 Kislev, the eve of Hanukkah. (In 2012, 24 Kislev began after sundown on 7 December.) Haggai 2:18-19 ”‘From this day on, from this twenty-fourth day of the ninth month [24 Kislev], give careful thought to the day when the foundation of the LORD’s temple was laid. Give careful thought: Is there yet any seed left in the barn? Until now, the vine and the fig tree, the pomegranate and the olive tree have not borne fruit. From this day on I will bless you.’” Nine months after the eve of Hanukkah (Feast of Dedication), the Messiah could have been born on 1 Tishrei, Rosh Hashanah (Feast of Trumpets), or 15 Tishrei, Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles). In 2012, these Jewish feasts took place after sundown on 16 September and 30 September respectively.
One thing I have learned in my 38 years of study is that God’s word does a great job of interpreting itself in many many cases. God ties things together for us to clearly see what He is telling us, and how He works, if we just use proper hermeneutical practices and let His word speak. First, regarding when these “lots” as drawn were to start would go back to Aaron and Moses when the Tabernacle was first built in the wilderness. Due to the Exodus from Egypt, their calendar was to thus begin in Nisan, the month of the Passover. So the descendents of Aaron would start the new year at that time and thus the “lots” would also would also start at that time. The story of Zachariah and Elizabeth immediately brings to mind the story of Abraham and Sarah. They are extremely similar. Zachariah and Elizabeth were well past the age biologically to have a child as were Abraham and Sarah. When Abraham was 99 years old we read in Genesis 17 that God promises him to have an heir through Sarah. Abraham and Sarah doubt God, Sarah even openly laughs. Abraham says, shall a man of 100 become a father? Zachariah in Luke doubts God as well and is struck dumb for his unbelief. In Genesis, after the Sodom and Gomorrah story unfolds in Genesis 19, we get back to Abraham and God saying he would have a child. In Genesis 21 it states that at the age of 100 Abraham and Sarah had a boy and named him Isaac. So obviously Sarah became pregnant very quickly after God told Abraham, at 99 y/o, that she would have a child. This parallel story between the OT and NT clearly leads the reader to the conclusion that Elizabeth would have gotten pregnant just as quickly as Sarah. God was ready in Genesis to pass the promises of Genesis 3:15 from Abraham to Isaac, and with Sarah of an advanced age, God acted quickly once the appointed time came. So also in Luke, God was ready to bring the Messiah into the world, so his fore-runner, John the Baptist had to be born. With John’s parents being also of an advanced age, God again acted quickly. Theses stories are mirror images of one another and for a reason. God is showing that when such appointed times arrive, He acts quickly. In Luke 1:55 when Mary arrives at Elizabeth’s home, Mary even ties together what has happened to her and Elizabeth by comparing it to the promises made to Abraham, thus uniting the OT and NT stories together. This adds more powerful hermeneutical evidence that God is repeating the miracle of Sarah again in Elizabeth. So we have ample Biblical evidence directly pointing us to conclude that God is repeating history. Sarah had her baby within a year, so I have no difficulty seeing God telling us that Elizabeth likewise had her child within a year. In the Companion Bible, an extensive study Bible with lots of notes and research, it calculates the dates for the service of Zachariah as being in June each year, for his one week. The dates I mentioned of June 13-19 was for the year 5 BC in the Companion Bible. But each year it would just move slightly within that period of June. This dating takes into account the weeks when all the Levites would be serving in the Temple, since the lots drawn were for weeks when just one Levite would be serving and performing the priestly duties by himself in the Temple. So I am convinced John was conceived in June 4 BC, Jesus 6 months later in Dec 4 BC. The triple conjunction as explained by Mr Larson in the Star of Bethlehem DVD, I think was announcing the birth of Christ in Sept/Oct 3 BC. Nine months later the brilliant star created by Venus and Jupiter I think was the spectacular sign needed to get the Wise men moving and on their way to Jerusalem, with them arriving sometime between Jesus’ 1st and 2nd birthdays.
An admirable thing in Mr. Larson’s video is his method.
He forced himself to consider each possibility.
The same should be done in investigating these issues.
Today, December 25, 2012, I celebrate the coming of the Prince of Peace.
“The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth His handywork.” Psalm 19:1 (KJV)
Thank you, Mr. Larson, for bringing to our attention the magnificent movements within the heavens that announced the first coming of the King of Kings to earth. May He be exalted today and every day as we anticipate His imminent return.
The Star of Bethlehem website is my home page. It reminds me of the exquisite attention to detail that our Father in heaven has exhibited, and will continue to exhibit, over the events of history, and of the inevitability of His loving plan for the salvation of mankind.
Blessings to all who visit this site on this day that is a time for personal and corporate celebration of our Savior’s birth!
My heartfelt thanks to you Mr Larson for a magnificent contribution to our understanding of how our Creator reveals Himself to us all. My thanks too to all who are contributing to this debate. All your strivings to understand the truth of this matter of timing is helpful in that it demonstrates how true seekers apply reason from differing perspectives in this effort. I am enjoying the debate as it is showing me too how to go about serious study.
Bless you all.
Watching your DVD was the highlight of our Christmas Day celebration! Thank you for being used of God to help bring God’s Word to life! What an amazing story!
Have you hooked up at all with Don Landis on any of this?
Thanks again. Super work. May this message of Truth go far and wide!
Mr. Larson
Noted something interesting on Starry Night software when I set up Dec. 25, 2 BC from Jerusalem. Just before sunrise and just above the southern horizon the Southern Cross constellation can be seen. This would not be possible in 2012 due to the phenomenon known as “precession.” Just wondered if anyone else has noticed this. It seems to provide an interesting transition point to “The Day of the Cross.”
Also, my Starry Night versions (4.5 and 6.4) show Jupiter beginning retrograde motion on Dec. 28 instead of Dec. 25, but the last week of December in 2 BC is still “close enough for government work,” as they say.
The Southern Cross is something that many of us have noticed. I have not yet incorporated it. The day on which Starry Night shows the beginning of Jupiter’s retrograde depends in part upon the resolution at which you have chosen to view it. If you are looking in minutes and hours instead of days, the result may change. Jupiter’s behavior does not change, only the software’s representation of it.
First of all, THANK YOU Mr. Larson! Watching your Bethlehem Star DVD is a Christmas tradition for us and your research and study is MUCH appreciated. We serve an amazing and powerful God!
I wanted to add something to David’s comment above from December 22. Last year I read a fascinating booklet called “Uncovering the Real Nativity” put out by Answers in Genesis. In part, they explain what David says about the “inn” above. Here’s a short excerpt from the booklet:
Verse 7 says: And she brought forth her firstborn Son, and wrapped Him in swaddling cloths, and laid Him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.
“Inn.” Doesn’t that refer to a hotel, or something like one? Actually, the Greek word translated here as “inn” is the word kataluma which usually refers to a “guest room.” The word kataluma only occurs two other times in Scripture—both of those are translated “guest room,” and they refer to the upper room where Jesus gave instructions to His disciples regarding the Last Supper:
14 “Where is the guest room [the kataluma] in which I may eat the Passover with My disciples?” –
Mark 14:14 (see also Luke 22:11) NKJV
You may recall that Luke does refer to an “inn” and an “innkeeper” in the parable of the Good Samaritan, but there, instead of the word kataluma, Luke uses the word pandocheion which means “an inn, a public house for the reception of strangers.” So when you read “inn,” think “guest room.” Now that certainly paints a different picture, doesn’t it?
There’s much more in the booklet than this! So interesting! If anyone wants to read more, they have published a free online copy of it at this link:
http://blogs.answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2010/12/25/uncovering-the-real-nativity—free-download/
Hi, Mr. Larson.
Love your DVD! Thank you so much for all the time and effort you put into this project. Your dedication is appreciated immensely! I was actually wondering how long it took you to come to this conclusion. They showed the DVD at our church this past week.
Also, with all the talk about the manger, I have heard that it was actually in a cave, as that is where travelers kept their animals to protect them from predators and bad weather.
Thank you, Mr. Larson, for pursuing the answers to what was foretold and seen in the heavens concerning the birth and death of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I was so excited after viewing the DVD that I purchased 15 copies….some to share and pass around, but others for Christmas gifts. I’ve given them to believers as confidence builders, and to friends “not fully convinced” of God’s plan or of Christ’s deity, for evangelism. I pray that they might bring many to Christ! What an excellent tool God has provided through you—Praise Him!
God bless you, Sally! Because of your decision to share, you have become part of this ancient story that God has chosen to revive. He revealed His timeless celestial poem 2000 years ago as a way to inform, and to overwhelm, He has chosen to do it again, and you and so many others have been called forward to help spread the good news afresh.
The Biblical account refers only to a star – not one word about planets. It’s my understanding that ancient astronomers were able to differentiate between stars and planets as stars remain relatively fixed in the night sky while planets move an appreciable amount during a relatively short period of time.
In addition, as you know, Jupiter is the largest and most massive of the planets and was the most important deity in both the Greek and Roman pantheons. And Venus is so close to us, it’s hard to miss.
One would think, therefore, that Magi well-versed in astrology would know exactly where Jupiter and Venus were in the night sky at all times. Why then would they describe the conjunction of Jupiter and Venus as a star?
Thanks.
Because the Jupiter/Venus conjunction was so close that the objects could not be distinguished from one another with the naked eye. They formed the brightest astral object anyone alive had ever seen. We know this because of Kepler’s/Newton’s math. As an aside, I have a picture of a much less close conjunction (occurring over my house!), and it definitely makes an impression.
Interesting… though not much of an explanation given that the scriptures upon which our information regarding the Star of Bethlehem is based indicate clearly that this was no actual star or planet. We know this from the Gospel of Matthew 2:9 in which the “star” is described as doing very un-star-like things:
“After listening to the king they left, and once again the star they saw when it rose led them until it stopped above the place where the child was.”
While a star or planet could rise and, in the course of its traverse across the sky, be generally seen as being over a particular large general area or town, yet no star or planet would have been able to lead them to and hover directly over “…the place where the child was”, which in this case was a specific “house” (v. 10). Yet THIS “star” did. Additionally, while stars due appear, given the Earth’s rotation, to “rise in the east,” yet as clearly and already stated here, Bethlehem was five miles south… not west… of Jerusalem such that a star/planet rising in the east would have appeared to be above it, much less appeared to “hover” directly over one particular house.
Thus, the fact that this star was able to travel before the Magi, leading them to and then stopping directly above the exact “house” (v. 10) where “the child was”, clearly and indisputably evidences this as not a star or planet but, instead, some sort of bright UFO.
Before you make up your mind, borrow the DVD from your library. You’ll see that I am aware of these objections. Many of your concerns are also addressed in the FAQ.
Couple of comments.
The word ‘paidon’ is not merely reserved for younger kids (6 months old or so)… an 8-day old boy is referred to in such a way (Luke 1:59,66).
The word ‘inn’ is the same word used for ‘upper room’ / guest-chamber (Mark 14:14; Luke 22:11). In old Jewish homes that’s where guests would stay, but because of the edict that was put forth by the roman government… other relatives of Joseph’s family would have been already there, so there would have been no place for them there. The ‘manger’ was not a separate barn… but a place near-by where the animals where held.
Also, Christ’s birth came WHILE they were there (Luke 2:6) not ‘in a hurry’ as typically is portrayed.
http://www.astrolabes.org/pages/history.htm
Brother Larson has glorified God with this ministry and encouraged the faith of many. Reinforced my faith enormously, and I’m grateful. Alive in one of the two blessed ages privileged to see GOD’s monumental handwriting engraved on heaven, I weep for joy.
Some are laboring from a false assumption, the “unaided eye”. True, telescopes had not yet been developed, but instruments such as the astrolabe, and spherical trigonometry (celestial navigation) had existed for 100s of years before Christ.
As a shipmaster, I read signs in the heavens for nearly half a century. Movement of the celestial objects are not obvious just by looking at them, but when measuring them by instrument, appear to move rapidly.
Azimuth and altitude and time of a bodies known momentary position, determines your position. it’s a simple direction and distance problem. you can work the problem in reverse, determining the point the body is directly above, from observed altitude and azimuth and your position. I hope that isn’t confusing. the point I want to make is, these learned men, Magi, weren’t sightseeing/stargazing. They were MEASURING the stars movements, and knew when and where it appeared to hover. Precise enough to define the exact house.
God bless. you all